Facebook discussions on massacre

Let’s make Guns Scarce and Expensive.

I just sent a letter to Senator Harry Reid suggesting a solution to the proliferation of guns in our society. I think the government is going at it the wrong way. Coercive confiscation will arouse the opposition and lead to more violence and bloodshed.

What if the government declared it would buy back all guns at twice their street value? Anybody could bring them into the closest police station and after a check to make sure it’s not stolen, would get cash in hand no questions asked. An excise tax at the manufacturer would prevent new guns from flooding the market. The idea is to make guns scarce and expensive, using market forces.

Instead of taking away guns, the government would be raising their value. No problems with the 2nd Amendment there. Gun dealers and pawn shops would have a field day rolling in profits while helping take guns off the street. Every small time crook and gang-banger would be stealing guns from each other to make a quick buck.

For the funding, I suggested a website for concerned people to donate to the gun buyback fund. I, for one, would much prefer donating to get guns off the street than donating to hear more political adds on TV and radio! I think there are a lot of people who are coming to the conclusion that the time for action is upon us.

Since it would be completely voluntary, who could object? I think such a program could be up and running in a month or so.

Might even help the poor! I can see a gun totin’ redneck looking at the monthly pickup payment in one hand and his pistol in the other and deciding he’d rather keep the pickup.

Tommy Peterson likes this.

Vickie Rock Better yet ... put a huge tax that would quadruple the price of anything other than a hunting rifle or a revolver.

Donald Rogers I'm trying to stay with the carrot, rather than the stick. I think it would draw less opposition that way.

Donald Rogers Since the government would set the prices, it could favor any type of weapon desired. My own preference would be higher prices for handguns of al kinds. Long guns and shotguns OK, kind of like Canada. Yeah, political ads uses just one d. I knew that!

Laverna Satterfield Would work for some of them I guess, but I can pretty much assure you that nobody I know around here would sell back their guns for double or even triple the price if they couldn't get another one. Might sell you their spouse or first born child, but not their guns!

Vickie Rock Maybe we should make bullets for assault rifles out of reach ... financially ????

John Rogers According to an official being interviewed on NPR today, it was a rifle used in every one of the Connecticut kids murders. She was very specific. She said every bullet wound in each one of those kids was from a rifle. There are no easy answers to this issue. I don't know anyone who would sell their guns for a few easy bucks. That would simply leave those who disarm themselves at the mercy of those who would do them harm.

Donald Rogers @Laverna: Yeah, I'm aware of the cultural biases regionally. Northern Nevada has the same culture. But I think the ones who own several might part with their least favorite ones for enough money. Especially during these hard times.

John Rogers I used to hear kids in the classroom talk about the "shock factor". They were constantly trying to figure out what they could do to shock their parents and other adults. Couple that attitude with video games that make it seem fun to see body parts flying and blood spattered all over the screen. Listen to the "music" they listen to. Much of it is a lot of very angry noise. The issue is much deeper than having guns.

Donald Rogers I suspect some areas, especially rural, would be very slow to cash in their guns. Maybe the inner city kids would be more likely to trade for cash. Those in it for the money-pawn shops and gun dealers-should be easy. It would not happen overnight. But I think as more and more people see the massacres increasing and their children in schools, malls, etc in increasing danger, attitudes will be shifting. They are already. I'm just proposing an idea to avoid the bloodshed Australia went through a few years ago.

Donald Rogers @John: Several of the recent shooters dressed up in black in obvious imitation of ninjas, Batman, commandos, etc. I agree on the movies, video games, and "music'. Carolyn and I wanted to see "Lincoln" but we knew it won't be at the local theater. They only play the worst gory, violent, vampire type films to attract the kids. We will have to travel to Reno or wait for it to come out on DVD, I guess.

Wesley Rogers Wouldn't this eventually have the effect of limiting gun access to only the wealthy and creating yet another disparity?

Wesley Rogers I wasn't very keen on Patrick Moynihan's proposal to make bullets scarce and expensive with a tax either.

Donald Rogers Yes, it would create disparity. But if guns became as expensive as cars, those who could afford to own them would be more likely to keep them locked up to avoid theft. I think the days of keeping guns to defend your liberties is about over, unless you can find a weapon to shoot down drones with cameras and Hellfire missiles. With all of the rights that have been already taken away by Bush and Obama, I don't see any patriots from the NRA taking those rights back.

Donald Rogers The attitude of the NRA as I see it is, You can take away my right to a trial before you throw me in jail, you can take away my right to not be searched without a warrant, you can take away my right to vote by restricting the ballot box, you can take away my right to collectively bargain with my employer, but don't take my guns away--that's the only freedom I care about.

Denise Webber I'd rather keep both, (I am an American citizen who is thankful for my ancestors & the right I have to own a gun @ affordable prices) this is one time when we will have to agree to disagree; many women that r not rednecks own guns. We have laws for lawlessness, in my mind we need more jobs to process those breaking the law . And lower pay for those in Congress.

Char Schmidt NOPE, not getting my gun.... I bought mine to protect my home and family. I don't see any criminal or crook bringing in a gun for double the cash. That's insane!! Your idea will just make them try to go in to people's homes and rob them of their weapons, using their own guns and then selling the stolen property for the cash, thus keeping their own guns for more robbery. I am planning on getting another one, for added security. I have a sign in my front window... Think twice before coming in to rob me... I am a gun owner and know how to use it.

Denise Webber We care about more than just guns, and We stand for and fight for many more things the best we can just like others....u can't put us all into one box or category....I don't do that with democrats, or those against guns or etc.....I have a great respect for those with differences even when disagreeing ..... just saying

Leslie Wright Gregg I own several guns and have somehow managed to a. Keep them from being stolen and b. keep myself from going crazy and shoot people. You bet us rural people won't be giving up our guns. 1. Because we like to hunt and 2. Because we believe in our right to defend ourselves. 

You say that the days of keeping guns to defend your liberties is over? I disagree. My house has been broken into twice. (And with the economy in crisis, it will get worse) If they ever break in while we are there, I will protect my family. 

I would love to live in a world of peace but we do not live in that world.

Leslie Wright Gregg People die from drunk drivers- should we buy back their cars?

Donald Rogers A lot of people missing the point here, I think. You are attacking my idea as if I intend to take your guns away. That's exactly what I am trying to avoid. If you like your guns, you are free to keep them as long as you want. I don't want to take away your guns. I have guns myself, Locked up, by the way. But someday if money gets tight, somebody might look at his five, ten, fifteen guns and decide to take the cash for a few of them. I am convinced after looking at the evidence that the fewer loose guns floating around, the fewer massacres occur. Even Wyatt Earp made the cowboys check their guns in Dodge City. They got them back when they left town.

Donald Rogers @ Leslie: I don't know about your state, but here in Nevada if you kill someone driving drunk, the first thing that happens is your vehicle is impounded. Then you go to jail for manslaughter.

Donald Rogers If the government comes to take my guns, I would hope they would pay me well for them. I don't want to be David Koresh or "Crocodile Dundee!"

Wesley Rogers I believe that protecting our liberties from the government is over; the people have tossed out the entire Bill of Rights willingly, and there is no competing with the government's firepower (whether it's the increasingly militarized police force or the actual military itself).

Over a decade ago, I spent a one time sum of $750 for a lifetime membership in the NRA. I've come close to renouncing that membership several times due to their crude demagogic rhetoric aimed at the lowest common denominator. (I get to read their monthly periodicals). But I remain a member because I still see the utility of easy access to firearms for citizens who have no violent criminal record. Personal security is the most compelling reason for me. Restraining orders are often inadequate to protect people who are in danger of assault from someone. Since lower income populations are often less able to rely on law enforcement for protection, I worry about the worsening disparity if guns were to be priced out of legal access for the common man/woman.

I recall an op-ed written by Jerusalem's former chief of police back in 1991 after the mass shooting in Killeen TX (I'm still trying to find the op-ed to link to ... here's the one for the TX incident though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby%27s_massacre ). The op-ed's author basically argued that a person with one pistol would never be able to kill dozens of people in Jerusalem due to the significant proportion of Israelis that carry concealed handguns. He then related an incident that happened there that shared some similarities to the TX case. If I recall correctly (and this is pure memory so I might screw up a detail or two) three armed men burst into a crowded diner/cafe and started shooting. Most of the patrons dropped to the floor for cover. Several others, however, pulled their sidearms and shot back. I believe one innocent was killed and two of the three aggressors were killed. The other was wounded and was arrested when the police arrived.
Luby's massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.orgThe Luby's massacre was a mass murder that took place on October 16, 1991, in Killeen,TX.

Denise Webber @Don.... one thing I do like/agree with is being able to choose to do something voluntarily.

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Good thoughts on both sides of a tricky issue.

This is the best posting I've read on the shooting. It comes from Coach Kevin Keathley: 

I see so may people writing we need tougher gun control laws or we need tighter security within the public school systems. I couldn't disagree more. Evil will always find a way to committ evil acts & crimes. A security guard, police officer or metal detectors won't stop it from happening. Our faith should be in the Lord & what he promises. When you put your faith in man is when disappointment will occur. Living in fear is exactly what homegrown terrorists & foriegn want us to do. I don't want my kids going to a school that feels more like a prison.... it should be a place to learn & grow as an individual. We will never STOP evil acts for God says so.

Donald Rogers Usually when I get asked if I believe in God, I try to be as honest as I can. I say "I don't know" or "I haven't seen enough evidence." But today let me say, if there is an all seeing, all loving, all powerful God, and he just stood there with his hands in his pockets while six heroic teachers and twenty innocent children were shot multiple times in a time span of ten or fifteen minutes, and he didn't lift a finger to stop it, he needs to hang his head in abject shame!

Carey Zegart Two things come to mind. First, if you believe in God, then this may provide some comfort. If you don't or aren't sure, comfort will elude you. Secondly, The best answer I've heard to why God lets things like this happen is from "Oh God," the movie staring George Burns as God and John Denver as the one person God reveals himself to. Person: Why God do you let these horrible things happen?" God: I don't let these things happen, you do!" We chose this path when we chose sin and just as God came and made things right again in Noah's day, he will return one day (Jesus) and make the world right again. It's ironic in that often it is the atheist that has more faith than the Christian. Besides God told us that evil will explode in the last days. There's nothing going on that he did not say or that the bible would not have predicted would happen. Things are unfolding as was foretold. He could have also chosen to save his son Jesus from dying in agony, but did not. How arrogant we are when we misbehave and then complain when God doesn't bail us out of the mess we created! Sometimes a father must let his son get in trouble in order to learn a bigger lesson or one that will stick with him. Sadly, I don't think we learned anything this week. God says to expect more of this, not by his doing,but by ours.

Donald Rogers Thanks for your thoughtful answer but I'm not buying it. The idea of trusting in God and not protecting yourself is the attitude of the Jews as they were marched off to the ovens. The motto of the Israeli army today is "Never Again!"

 Jim Parker Believing in God hasn't prevented previous killings such as this. I think God would be a lot more supportive if humankind took and worked on responsibility for their own issues. The coach is right in that we cannot live in 'armed camps' or in the USA at least, gun ourselves up even more, as the NRA would have you do. Just a Canuck's unsolicited opinion . ..

Carey Zegart Yes, but a Canuck who grew up in Canada, lived in the US and has traveled much of the world and seen and experienced many cultures and ways of looking at things. Do not discount you own opinion; it's probably more valuable than a lot of peoples' facts.

Carey Zegart Thanks Don.

Jim Parker Thanks Carey.